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Offline Goofy  
#1 Posted : 16 July 2015 09:28:19(UTC)
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Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,012
When i read my MS2 data,it shows 17,7 volts as power.
So i wonder if i can reduce power voltage,when to use DCC and 2 rail?
I didn´t try it yet,so standing an question first are more safety.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 16 July 2015 09:31:27(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,262
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
When i read my MS2 data,it shows 17,7 volts as power.
I think the MS2 is showing off. Track voltage probably is around 16 V and should be no problem for two-rail H0 items.
You cannot get 17.7 V track voltage when using an 18 V switching-mode power supply.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Goofy  
#3 Posted : 16 July 2015 09:40:54(UTC)
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Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
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Are you sure?
It shows same every time i use MS2 and check.

DSC_0013_119.JPG
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 16 July 2015 10:51:28(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,262
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Are you sure?
I am sure. The question is where do they measure the voltage - and how.
My 18 V Märklin power supply delivers 18 V +/- 0.1 V.

Inside the track box there is a bridge rectifier (voltage drop of two diodes).
At the track stage there are two transistors (voltage drop of two transistors).

You simply cannot get 17.7 V track voltage from 18.1 input voltage with two diodes and two transistors in between. Track voltage must be lower than that.

Use a True-RMS volt meter to measure the track voltage.

Or try switching-mode power supplies with 16 V or 14 V to get a lower track voltage.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Goofy  
#5 Posted : 16 July 2015 10:59:31(UTC)
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Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
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I know you have MS2 too.
Can you show the picture,when check at the voltage in the MS2?
You must only use same power feeder as i do,it´s 66361.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline efel  
#6 Posted : 16 July 2015 14:21:05(UTC)
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efel

France   
Joined: 23/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 800
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
When i read my MS2 data,it shows 17,7 volts as power.
So i wonder if i can reduce power voltage,when to use DCC and 2 rail?
I didn´t try it yet,so standing an question first are more safety.

Hi,
The NMRA standard states:
"Digital Decoders intended for "N" and 70 smaller scales shall be designed to withstand a DC voltage of at least 24 volts as measured at the track.
Digital Decoders intended for scales larger than "N" shall be designed to withstand a DC voltage of at
least 27 volts as measured at the track".

So, why a 18V voltage on the track is a problem?

Furthermore, I agree with H0: if your MS2 is fed with 18V DC, it's impossible to get 17.7V on track.

Fred
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thanks 1 user liked this useful post by efel
H0
Offline Goofy  
#7 Posted : 16 July 2015 15:03:29(UTC)
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Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,012
Originally Posted by: efel Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
When i read my MS2 data,it shows 17,7 volts as power.
So i wonder if i can reduce power voltage,when to use DCC and 2 rail?
I didn´t try it yet,so standing an question first are more safety.

Hi,
The NMRA standard states:
"Digital Decoders intended for "N" and 70 smaller scales shall be designed to withstand a DC voltage of at least 24 volts as measured at the track.
Digital Decoders intended for scales larger than "N" shall be designed to withstand a DC voltage of at
least 27 volts as measured at the track".

So, why a 18V voltage on the track is a problem?

Furthermore, I agree with H0: if your MS2 is fed with 18V DC, it's impossible to get 17.7V on track.

Fred


The NMRA standards says soo...but real for the difference scales.
N scale recommend maximum 14 volt on the track,cause of the wheels and smaller motor etc...
Topic is about how to fix the problem by reduce voltage to 16 volt.
It´s my goal.
If you too have MS2 and 66361,please check data in the MS2 and show with an picture,if you get same result or not.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline Purellum  
#8 Posted : 16 July 2015 21:47:08(UTC)
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Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
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Cool

Hurray, a new voltage / rectifier / diode topic. LOL

I'm looking forward to see the detonations.

Per.

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Offline H0  
#9 Posted : 16 July 2015 21:58:13(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,262
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
If you too have MS2 and 66361,please check data in the MS2 and show with an picture,if you get same result or not.
I know the voltage reading of the MS2 is nonsense by design. Screenshots won't make a difference.
Would be interesting if someone with a high-frequency true RMS voltmeter or an oscilloscope would measure the actual track voltage when using a 66361.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Purellum  
#10 Posted : 16 July 2015 22:12:09(UTC)
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Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,500
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

I just measured, using a Fluke 189 True RMS multimeter.

Output from the 66361 was 18,090 V DC.

Track voltage was 15,418 V AC. ( Only multimeter was connected )

MS2 showed 18,3 V.

Per.

Cool

If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

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Offline Goofy  
#11 Posted : 17 July 2015 10:48:03(UTC)
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Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,012
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post


MS2 showed 18,3 V.

Per.



Then in case...it´s bug in the MS2. LOL

Cool

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline Purellum  
#12 Posted : 17 July 2015 11:40:19(UTC)
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Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,500
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post


Then in case...it´s bug in the MS2. LOL

Cool



No, it's a feature, to tell you the approximate voltage from the 66361.

Nobody have promised that you could measure the track voltage.

Per.

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

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Offline Goofy  
#13 Posted : 17 July 2015 16:56:27(UTC)
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Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,012
No it´s not feature.
It´s default in the MS2.

Cool
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline Purellum  
#14 Posted : 17 July 2015 19:16:00(UTC)
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Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,500
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

It's a feature, chosen by Märklin.

If you want a controller with a feature that lets you measure track voltage, then you have chosen the wrong controller.

That is your fault, not Märklin's.

Per.

Cool

If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
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