Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

2 Pages<12
Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline Drongo  
#51 Posted : 20 June 2015 09:01:21(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,221
Location: Sydney, NSW
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Drongo Go to Quoted Post
I'm already accommodating a Marklin 37423 another piece of junk made in China.
Have you seen a "Made in China" sticker or are you just guessing it was made there?



The customs declaration document states "Made in China".

What's wrong with the 37423? It's exactly the same as the "Thalys". It has a plastic body - looks great - however, the weighting is all wrong. The front is too light and the slightest bump causes it to derail. This unit was the replacement for my Thalys as it was a piece of junk - see my report under "Reviews of Locos"

Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
Offline Dreadnought  
#52 Posted : 20 June 2015 12:23:13(UTC)
Dreadnought

Canada   
Joined: 24/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 417
Location: Niagara, Ontario
Another one failed last night, That brings me up to nine failed. I hope Marklin will have the fix out soon. I am glad I have not done any scenery on the new layout.
I was waiting for the fix, but the failed switches are such a nuisance I may replace them with whatever the dealer has, and accept that in six months I will be doing it again.

I wonder what the big layouts, like Modelworld in Hamburg do. They must be continually replacing the switch motors.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Dreadnought
Offline H0  
#53 Posted : 20 June 2015 13:24:15(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Dreadnought Go to Quoted Post
I wonder what the big layouts, like Modelworld in Hamburg do.
MiWuLa? They do not use C track. And I think they do not use Märklin turnout mechanisms.
And BTW: they are getting rid of centre rail track anyway. The centre rail studs wear down so quickly that they have to replace the tracks perpetually. Next time they will use tracks without centre rail.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Bob  
#54 Posted : 22 June 2015 13:06:20(UTC)
Bob


Joined: 21/06/2010(UTC)
Posts: 103
Location: South Australia
Hi everyone,
I had problems with the 74490 point motors which failed as described in the postings above. I replaced them with 74491, with which I have only one failure so far. After I removed the turnout I observed that when some are placed on the test bench the turnout motor may operate, but as soon as it is installed it either does not work at all or moves in only one direction. Of course there are also genuine dud ones which do not work at all. I originally considered that when the turnouts are installed they are subject to some torsional stress, in particular if the turnout is screwed down. None of my turnouts are screwed down and generally neither are the tracks. I operate all my turnout motors with k83 decoders, Marklin and IEK.
I will take all my dud turnout motors to the Marklin Days this year and see if they are replaced. Naturally mine are all beyond the one year warranty but I can honestly say that they only worked for a few months, some only for a few days. I just never considered returning them because of the high Australian postage rates.
It will be interesting if we all front up to the Marklin Service Department with our the dud turnout motors, hopefully they have enough for replacements.

Looking forward to the treff.

Bob
Running Mtrack analogue and Ctrack digital. Collector of V200s.
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by Bob
Offline Dreadnought  
#55 Posted : 22 June 2015 14:44:23(UTC)
Dreadnought

Canada   
Joined: 24/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 417
Location: Niagara, Ontario
Numer 10 failed last night.

I guess six months is all one can expect before these fail. The good news only 17 to go. I think I will start to replace. Having to dash about the layout to flip switches is good exercise physically, but causes unpleasant seamanlike oaths to explode from my lips.

I am debating taking some defective ones to the Treff and giving them to Marklin executives as I see them.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Dreadnought
Offline foumaro  
#56 Posted : 22 June 2015 15:13:07(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,420
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
I bought 16 before 22 years and they are working perfect.I bought 4 before 6 mounths and they are all failed.They are working now after a surgery that a friend made to them,i do not know what did he cut or glue,but they are working now.
Offline efel  
#57 Posted : 22 June 2015 23:27:25(UTC)
efel

France   
Joined: 23/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 800
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
...MiWuLa? They do not use C track. And I think they do not use Märklin turnout mechanisms.
And BTW: they are getting rid of centre rail track anyway. The centre rail studs wear down so quickly that they have to replace the tracks perpetually. Next time they will use tracks without centre rail.


Hi Tom,

Do you mean: if they are to do it all over again, they would use 2 rails system instead of marklin?

Regards,

Fred

Offline H0  
#58 Posted : 23 June 2015 20:18:01(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: efel Go to Quoted Post
Do you mean: if they are to do it all over again, they would use 2 rails system instead of marklin?
In their outlook for 2014 they announced to replace three-rail track with two-rail tracks in parts of the layout. And to me it sounds as if they will replace all three-rail tracks in the long run.
A MiWuLa employee commented that this was much like a 10 year plan.

In newly built areas they use two-rail track. Hamburg and Scandinavia mainly use Roco track. The USA area mainly uses Peco code 75 track. For Switzerland they mainly used Fleischmann tracks.
Now they build Italy, France, England - and you won't see many three-rail tracks there, if any.

Links to MiWuLa (all German):
Outlook 2014: http://www.miniatur-wund...kel/jahresausblick-2014/
Weekly report 375 from 2008: http://www.miniatur-wund...chenbericht-nr-375-kw-1/
Weekly report 392: emergency repairs at Hamburg Central Station because centre rail studs were too low: http://www.miniatur-wund...henbericht-nr-392-kw-18/



Back to topic "turnout mechanisms":
MiWuLa uses K track turnouts with original turnout mechanisms - but the cut-off switches have been removed.
On other areas they use LGB turnout mechanisms.


Back to topic "74491":
On Stummi's Forum you can find pictures of the new PCB.
Link to forum: http://www.stummiforum.d...c.php?p=1385858#p1385858
Direct link to pictures: http://pebedu.homeftp.net/photo/share/GjE8hOHt

The new PCBs have a varistor, a capacitor, and a resistor near the cut-off switch. Hopefully there is enough bird-seed now to prevent sparks inside the cut-off switches.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by H0
Offline efel  
#59 Posted : 24 June 2015 21:18:50(UTC)
efel

France   
Joined: 23/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 800
Thanks for your input, Tom. I was not aware of that problem with the central rail!
But may be more contact problems with the 2-rails system!

Best regards

Fred
Offline Dreadnought  
#60 Posted : 06 July 2015 15:37:01(UTC)
Dreadnought

Canada   
Joined: 24/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 417
Location: Niagara, Ontario
And another one. My dealer is sending replacements. I will replace the defective ones, so I can keep operating. I accept this means doing it all again, in another six months.Mad
I hope Marklin has a fix in the works soon.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Dreadnought
Offline Dreadnought  
#61 Posted : 12 July 2015 00:41:21(UTC)
Dreadnought

Canada   
Joined: 24/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 417
Location: Niagara, Ontario
Update!

My dealer has suggested I wait for a month to replace the defective units. Apparently Marklin is sending out what he calls "V2". I assume he means the problem has been addressed by Marklin, and fixed with a version two of the motors. Apparently Marklin want him to return the defective ones. I guess I will not be taking them to Goppingen in Seltember.

I wonder if anyone else has heard of this fix?

(Two months to the "treff" !! :)
Offline H0  
#62 Posted : 12 July 2015 08:01:26(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Dreadnought Go to Quoted Post
I wonder if anyone else has heard of this fix?
See post #58.

They introduced the new number 74491 for the V2 mechanisms (or was that V3 already?).
No matter which revision it is, the new version has more bird seed on the PCB. Rumours say shipping of the new version started in April.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline Dreadnought  
#63 Posted : 12 July 2015 12:28:53(UTC)
Dreadnought

Canada   
Joined: 24/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 417
Location: Niagara, Ontario
Thank you Tom,

My un-tech mind did not grasp the various electronic terms, much less what they meant for the switch motors. I like the term "bird seed", and the fact that it is a solution.

Maybe Marklin should give the fix a new number so we are clear on which one we are buying.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Dreadnought
Offline sjlauritsen  
#64 Posted : 12 July 2015 21:22:09(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
Originally Posted by: Dreadnought Go to Quoted Post
Maybe Marklin should give the fix a new number so we are clear on which one we are buying.

If that does not happen, there is some kind of serial number on the label that might help you recognize them. I received a batch of the new ones from the factory this month and they are called "220515xxxxx". My older ones are called 220514xxxxx". Also the circuit board on the new ones is green on both sides. My older models have a brown and a green side.

These things are just indications that you have a new one in your hands, they can of course change without notice. A unique product number would be better.


Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by sjlauritsen
Offline Chris6382chris  
#65 Posted : 13 July 2015 05:17:01(UTC)
Chris6382chris

United States   
Joined: 27/11/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,215
Location: Middle of the US
As has been discussed before, after experiencing failures with both the old and new turnout mechanisms I simply now employ the solder fix to every switch motor before installing them. I use the ECOS Switch Pilot as the decoder so the motor is only given a quick pulse and I have had no problems with a motor burning out.

This fix is 100%.

Chris
Offline Dreadnought  
#66 Posted : 25 October 2015 18:17:01(UTC)
Dreadnought

Canada   
Joined: 24/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 417
Location: Niagara, Ontario
One of my new "version 2" has failed, in just the same way. It will switch to turn, but will not come back to strait. I had thought the problem was solved!!
Have any others had problems with the new replacement switch motors?
Offline sjlauritsen  
#67 Posted : 25 October 2015 22:06:42(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
Originally Posted by: Dreadnought Go to Quoted Post
One of my new "version 2" has failed, in just the same way. It will switch to turn, but will not come back to strait. I had thought the problem was solved!!
Have any others had problems with the new replacement switch motors?

Oh! Not good. What is the serial number on your failed drive?
Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
Offline Dreadnought  
#68 Posted : 30 October 2015 13:35:55(UTC)
Dreadnought

Canada   
Joined: 24/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 417
Location: Niagara, Ontario
There is no serial number that I can find. The only outward difference between the "new" and "old" motors I can see is that the "new" ones have a white label glued to them. Both have the same part number, 74491.

I hope this was simply a defective "new" one and not the same problem recurring.

If it happens with others, maybe it is time to look to some make of switch motor other than Marklin.
Offline db ice3  
#69 Posted : 07 November 2015 21:02:27(UTC)
db ice3


Joined: 24/12/2009(UTC)
Posts: 178
Location: uk
this is certainly a worry! especially for a newbie to the world of marklin!.

im just contemplating various track scenarios before commiting to a layout - im wondering if the 15 motors 74490 i have bought, i should perform the "micro-switch" bypass before installation even begins - ill be using a combination of built in decoders and m83 decoders to drive them - and hope that with the micro-switch bypass and the decoder giving just a short burst of energy, this will be sufficient for a reliable operation.

i couldnt think of anything worse than a newly contsructed layout and then the motor failing and track having to be lifted again to remove / fix / replace the point motor!.

its nice having concealed motors but what a nusisance if/ when they go wrong!

the old hornby trackside motor wins in this case lol
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by db ice3
Offline Dreadnought  
#70 Posted : 08 November 2015 05:25:37(UTC)
Dreadnought

Canada   
Joined: 24/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 417
Location: Niagara, Ontario
I was at my Marklin dealer today. Apparently all my replacements have been with the old defective motors. The new ones have now started to arrive in Canada. I got three new ones today. As fate would have it another old one failed after I got home. Grrrrrrr.

The "new" ones have a large white piece of paper glued to them. The old, defective ones have either a small piece of white paper or nothing.

Oh well, it gives me an excuse to go to the big city and buy more Marklin.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Dreadnought
Offline Glen Millen  
#71 Posted : 15 November 2015 01:20:04(UTC)
Glen Millen


Joined: 15/11/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Dreadnought Go to Quoted Post

I was talking with a retired Marklin dealer. I told him my sad tale. He shook his head, and, in so many words said how sad it was that Marklin had let something this unreliable on the market. He seemed sorry his beloved Marklin has so slipped. My old M track switches were faultless from a mechanical point of view. Apparently the problem does not happen if you use the "digital installation decoder".

Have any others encountered this problem?


I am surprised your retired Marklin dealer doesn't know of the problem, as it is a well known problem.

The micro switches that are operated by the solenoids to turn off the current when the turnout has changed position are unreliable. If using digital decoders the standard trick is to short out all the terminals on the switch with solder.

However you are not using digital, so if you do this you run a risk of burning out the solenoids if you manage to keep your finger on the button too long. There are two possibilities here, keep returning failed motors to your dealer for exchange, or short out the micro switches AND use a capacitor discharge similar to what 2 rail people have been using for years. These will supply a good pulse of current for a short time, but if you keep your finger on the button the current is limited and the solenoid will not burn out.


I have up graded to a s2 central station and the 74460 digital decodes stopped working the later 74461 deocoders still work on the layout.ThumbDown
Offline 3rail4life  
#72 Posted : 15 November 2015 06:18:55(UTC)
3rail4life

United States   
Joined: 23/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 426
Location: Northern California

I have up graded to a s2 central station and the 74460 digital decodes stopped working the later 74461 deocoders still work on the layout.ThumbDown


Try swapping the red and brown feeder wires and see if that makes a difference...
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by 3rail4life
H0
Offline H0  
#73 Posted : 15 November 2015 08:52:38(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Welcome to the forum!

Originally Posted by: Glen Millen Go to Quoted Post
I have up graded to a s2 central station and the 74460 digital decodes stopped working the later 74461 deocoders still work on the layout.ThumbDown
Upgraded from what? When upgrading from CS1 to CS2 you can use the same plug, but have to swap wires in the plug.
Some versions of the CS2 manual show red and brown wires at the wrong position.

Like Gordon I think it is just a problem of polarity (swapped wires).
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline Rocca  
#74 Posted : 15 November 2015 09:59:19(UTC)
Rocca

Italy   
Joined: 28/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 615
Hi, Janne,

I'm really interested in this thread, because I've the same problem with some of my turnouts, switched digitally with CS1. Can you explain how I have to do for soldering/shorting the micro-switches?

Best regards

Stefano Rocca


Originally Posted by: Janne75 Go to Quoted Post
I have around 25 electric turnouts with these 74490/74491 turnout motors. I have decoders in all of them and I control them with CS2. I have at the moment problems with two of them = the ones I have not soldered/shorted micro-switches yet. My recommendation is to solder ALL of them for the reliable operation. I´m lucky with these two turnouts as there is not yet scenery in these locations.

Joe, I´m sorry you have to take apart your scenery to get access to your faulty turnout motors. I would not trust Märklin and hope to get newer and better ones they promise. I my opinion the new ones will be as bad as the old ones have been for very long time Angry .

Edit: All versions I have got are as bad. Versions 1.2 , 1.3 and 1.4 printed on the PCB. They have changed some things, but all have failed sooner or later.


Offline Thewolf  
#75 Posted : 15 November 2015 16:07:46(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 2,035
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Hi everyoneBigGrin

2-3 years ago I had problems with 74490: they did not work anymore. On another forum some people advised to cut the purposes of race of engines. I did it. No problems since this moment.
I bought new motors (74491) and although marklin assert that no problem will arrive, I do not trust.

I did the same " surgery "BigGrin Drool

Thewolf
Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Thewolf
Offline PeFu  
#76 Posted : 15 November 2015 16:36:37(UTC)
PeFu

Sweden   
Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,180
Originally Posted by: Rocca Go to Quoted Post
Hi, Janne,

I'm really interested in this thread, because I've the same problem with some of my turnouts, switched digitally with CS1. Can you explain how I have to do for soldering/shorting the micro-switches?

Best regards

Stefano Rocca


I found this clip on how to solder the micro-switches: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pkt5h4b0WGE

BigGrin Peter
Andreasburg-Mattiasberg Bahn is inspired by Swiss railways |Forum Thread |Track Plan |Youtube | C and K track | CS2 | TrainController Gold V10
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by PeFu
Offline Thewolf  
#77 Posted : 15 November 2015 16:44:49(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 2,035
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Originally Posted by: PeFu Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Rocca Go to Quoted Post
Hi, Janne,

I'm really interested in this thread, because I've the same problem with some of my turnouts, switched digitally with CS1. Can you explain how I have to do for soldering/shorting the micro-switches?

Best regards

Stefano Rocca


I found this clip on how to solder the micro-switches: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pkt5h4b0WGE

BigGrin Peter


My dealer said : ''Serge for only 74490...not for 74491"

Thewolf

Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline Rocca  
#78 Posted : 15 November 2015 17:58:25(UTC)
Rocca

Italy   
Joined: 28/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 615
Thank you so so so much! That is perfect.

Best regards

Stefano Rocca



Originally Posted by: PeFu Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Rocca Go to Quoted Post
Hi, Janne,

I'm really interested in this thread, because I've the same problem with some of my turnouts, switched digitally with CS1. Can you explain how I have to do for soldering/shorting the micro-switches?

Best regards

Stefano Rocca


I found this clip on how to solder the micro-switches: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pkt5h4b0WGE

BigGrin Peter


Offline sjlauritsen  
#79 Posted : 16 November 2015 11:59:03(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
Originally Posted by: Dreadnought Go to Quoted Post
There is no serial number that I can find. The only outward difference between the "new" and "old" motors I can see is that the "new" ones have a white label glued to them. Both have the same part number, 74491.

The serial number is on the label, just below the "18 V" symbol. It says something like "*220515xxxx" or "*220715xxxx".

What is your number?

Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
Offline PMPeter  
#80 Posted : 16 February 2016 21:37:47(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,272
Location: Port Moody, BC
Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: PeFu Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Rocca Go to Quoted Post
Hi, Janne,

I'm really interested in this thread, because I've the same problem with some of my turnouts, switched digitally with CS1. Can you explain how I have to do for soldering/shorting the micro-switches?

Best regards

Stefano Rocca


I found this clip on how to solder the micro-switches: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pkt5h4b0WGE

BigGrin Peter


My dealer said : ''Serge for only 74490...not for 74491"

Thewolf



Since I am in the process of moving my layout from one room to another and rebuilding it, I am in the process of soldering the micro switches in the 74490 units. I am interested why your dealer says no surgery on the 74491 units?

In the 74491 units there are two switches, so my question is, "Is it better to short across each as previously shown in this post, or remove the micro switches entirely?". I found that by adding the wire the micro switches essentially become loose from the circuit board and can be taken out. A shorting wire then needs to be added to the board directly. Which method is better, or does the micro switch create enough resistance to keep the switch in its last position?

Cheers
Peter
Offline witzlerh  
#81 Posted : 18 February 2016 20:00:08(UTC)
witzlerh

Canada   
Joined: 25/09/2010(UTC)
Posts: 417
Location: Sherwood Park, AB, Canada
If you have a CS2 or MS2, those controllers give a 250 ms burst to switch the motor, then you do not need the micro switches.
If you have manual push buttons, then the micro switches will protect the motor if someone or something rests on the switch buttons.
Harald
CS2 DB & Canadian Era 3-6
Offline PMPeter  
#82 Posted : 18 February 2016 20:08:30(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,272
Location: Port Moody, BC
Originally Posted by: witzlerh Go to Quoted Post
If you have a CS2 or MS2, those controllers give a 250 ms burst to switch the motor, then you do not need the micro switches.
If you have manual push buttons, then the micro switches will protect the motor if someone or something rests on the switch buttons.


I understand that and that is not really my question. I am using a CS2 so the micro switches really are not necessary. My actual question is whether it is better to remove them or to short them out. As a trial I removed them and added a small shorting wire for each across the printed circuit board locations. However, the solenoid "plunger" is now totally loose and I do not know if this will lead to the turnouts not maintaining position. The micro switches appear to provide enough friction that the plunger and thus the turnouts stay in position.

I was wondering if anyone had experience with the functionality after removing the micro switches.

Peter
Offline Danlake  
#83 Posted : 18 February 2016 21:23:55(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,571
Hi Peter,

As you say I think the mechanical part of the plastic switch is needed to provide some resistance. But I have also wondered the same as you - instead of fiddling around with soldering why not just remove the switch?

Anyway to avoid the switch becoming loose I did following: cut off first the little varsistor (then you have move space for soldering). Then apply extra solder to the old contacts. Strip a 20 awg wire and cut a small piece and then solder this on (by not using the old solder pad to bridge the connections you will avoid the switch becoming loose).

I also applied a dab of electrical liquid tape as I was not sure what would happen if the metal housing gets in contact with the now extended contacts.

Brgds Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Danlake
Offline PMPeter  
#84 Posted : 18 February 2016 21:37:06(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,272
Location: Port Moody, BC
Originally Posted by: Danlake Go to Quoted Post
Hi Peter,

As you say I think the mechanical part of the plastic switch is needed to provide some resistance. But I have also wondered the same as you - instead of fiddling around with soldering why not just remove the switch?

Anyway to avoid the switch becoming loose I did following: cut off first the little varsistor (then you have move space for soldering). Then apply extra solder to the old contacts. Strip a 20 awg wire and cut a small piece and then solder this on (by not using the old solder pad to bridge the connections you will avoid the switch becoming loose).

I also applied a dab of electrical liquid tape as I was not sure what would happen if the metal housing gets in contact with the now extended contacts.

Brgds Lasse


Thanks Lasse.

I too was concerned about how close the soldering pad was to the black housing, and after removing the capacitor/varistor and soldering the wire in place I covered the switch and wire with actual electrical tape. Seems to work fine. The trick is removing the capacitor/varistor before soldering. I was getting nowhere fast trying to bridge across it.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by PMPeter
Offline dickinsonj  
#85 Posted : 02 January 2017 15:03:23(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,675
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: Danlake Go to Quoted Post

This is how I did it on 74491.

If you are using digital to control them - you might as well start sooner than later to do this modification. It will fail eventually.

Brgds - Lasse

I just installed a new 74491 yesterday and I have a question about its operation. It throws cleanly in one direction as expected. But when I throw it the other way it moves properly but buzzes pretty loudly. I was wondering if anyone else has seen this and if this might be another issue with those limit switches. Perhaps energizing/deenergizing the coils while making intermittent contact?

Since I have move to all digital control now and use 200ms for my pulse duration, I probably should just open them up before I install them and do that simple repair. I have been using both 74490 and 74491 motors for many years without a single failure, so I have ignored this potential problem up until now. But shorting out those unnecessary limit switches seems like a good idea to me, especially before the turnouts are fixed onto a layout.

Any advice or suggestions would be welcome.

Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline Danlake  
#86 Posted : 02 January 2017 18:50:58(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,571
Hi Jim,

I have quite a few turnouts that buzz loudly in one direction as well.

On some of them it helped a little by going down to 100ms.

Not sure either why some of them are so noisy...

Brgds Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
Offline dickinsonj  
#87 Posted : 03 January 2017 00:47:13(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,675
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: Danlake Go to Quoted Post

On some of them it helped a little by going down to 100ms.

Not sure either why some of them are so noisy...

Brgds Lasse


Thanks for the input Lasse!

I had considered trying a shorter duration and it is interesting to hear that using 100 ms helped your noisy turnouts. Maybe the buzz is not really a problem but hearing that was a first for me and I wondered if it indicated a problem.

Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline H0  
#88 Posted : 03 January 2017 08:35:57(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
Maybe the buzz is not really a problem but hearing that was a first for me and I wondered if it indicated a problem.
The buzzing sound should stop when the turnout reaches the end position and the cut-off switch interrupts the current to the turnout motor.

Buzzing sound is normal if the cut-off switch was bridged.
With unbridged cut-off switches, there should be just a short buzzing sound even if you activate the turnout manually for a second or so.

The sound indicates that the turnout mechanism does not reach the end position. If it works well otherwise, you may prefer not to investigate this non-issue.
A cut-off switch that never cuts off the current will never cause the turnout to fail.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline dickinsonj  
#89 Posted : 04 January 2017 01:27:08(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,675
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
Maybe the buzz is not really a problem but hearing that was a first for me and I wondered if it indicated a problem.
The buzzing sound should stop when the turnout reaches the end position and the cut-off switch interrupts the current to the turnout motor.

Buzzing sound is normal if the cut-off switch was bridged.
With unbridged cut-off switches, there should be just a short buzzing sound even if you activate the turnout manually for a second or so.

The sound indicates that the turnout mechanism does not reach the end position. If it works well otherwise, you may prefer not to investigate this non-issue.
A cut-off switch that never cuts off the current will never cause the turnout to fail.

Lots of good points there Tom - thanks for your always helpful input. Cool

This motor is just fresh out of the Märklin box and I have not bridged the limit switches. This is not the normal sound of the solenoid activating, but a distinct buzz, almost like an old fashioned door bell. It only does it in one direction but it is quite loud and very different from the normal operating sound of a turnout. One that I installed today did it on the first throw in one direction but then never did it again, in either direction. Obviously these are not held to an incredibly high performance standard. BigGrin

I also agree that the sound most likely comes from the limit switch not closing properly, and that it won't be a significant problem functionally. I am an engineer however and it is not supposed to do that, and I want to know why. BigGrin

If it is the limit switch it would not be worth the cost to repair it and I live too far from Germany for a warranty to make any sense for the small stuff. I think that I will combine Tom's input with Lasse's and shorten the pulse duration and then not worry about it as long as it works. My temporary layout is coming back to life, so what is a little buzzing after all?

I have several beautiful new loks and trains that I have never run on real mainlines yet. The next month will be heaven for me - turnout buzzing or not! BigGrin
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by dickinsonj
Offline PMPeter  
#90 Posted : 04 January 2017 02:13:13(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,272
Location: Port Moody, BC
I have had this on a number of occasions with both brand new and used 74491 units and in all cases it was the alignment of the switch machine under the turnout. There are 3 round nibs below the switch machine that need to fit in perfectly in the corresponding holes of the switch machine. if one or both of the screw mounting tabs are slightly bent I have had one of the nibs not going into the hole (Usually the small one at the far end) and even though the switch machine appears to be tight and functioning, it buzzes in one direction due to the misalignment. My solution has been to loosen the two mounting screws and wiggle the machine until you can feel that all nibs have entered their corresponding holes. Then tighten the mounting screws. In 90% of my cases this solved the problem and the buzzing disappeared. In the other cases it was a cracked mounting screw hole that caused the misalignment and I have to live with it.

By the way I always short out the micro switches so in my case the buzzing did not come from them but from the solenoid itself.

Hope this helps.

Peter
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by PMPeter
Offline PMPeter  
#91 Posted : 04 January 2017 02:26:49(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,272
Location: Port Moody, BC
Further to my above comments, if you can test the switch machine prior to mounting it in the switch and it does not buzz, then you can be pretty sure it is an alignment issue if it buzzes afterward.
Offline dickinsonj  
#92 Posted : 05 January 2017 01:44:00(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,675
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post
I have had this on a number of occasions with both brand new and used 74491 units and in all cases it was the alignment of the switch machine under the turnout. There are 3 round nibs below the switch machine that need to fit in perfectly in the corresponding holes of the switch machine. if one or both of the screw mounting tabs are slightly bent I have had one of the nibs not going into the hole (Usually the small one at the far end) and even though the switch machine appears to be tight and functioning, it buzzes in one direction due to the misalignment. My solution has been to loosen the two mounting screws and wiggle the machine until you can feel that all nibs have entered their corresponding holes. Then tighten the mounting screws. In 90% of my cases this solved the problem and the buzzing disappeared. In the other cases it was a cracked mounting screw hole that caused the misalignment and I have to live with it.

By the way I always short out the micro switches so in my case the buzzing did not come from them but from the solenoid itself.

Hope this helps.

Peter


I had not thought of that Peter - thanks for the advice. I had thought about checking the motor when it was not mounted in the turnout to see if it only did it when installed. I will check them out for misalignment tomorrow and report on what I find. It is also interesting that it has nothing to do with the limit switches, as I suspected.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline dickinsonj  
#93 Posted : 05 January 2017 22:33:40(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,675
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post
Further to my above comments, if you can test the switch machine prior to mounting it in the switch and it does not buzz, then you can be pretty sure it is an alignment issue if it buzzes afterward.

That is exactly what the problem was Peter - two of the nibs were in place, but the third one was not. Thanks so much for your help! Cool

I recently installed motors/decoders/lanterns in 12 new switches and now I just need to go back and check the rest of them for proper alignment. It is great to know that I have actually fixed a problem rather than just finding a work around.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by dickinsonj
Users browsing this topic
2 Pages<12
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2024, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 1.919 seconds.