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Offline river6109  
#1 Posted : 20 June 2015 08:17:44(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Hi,

made contact with a Märklinist from Perth, through Dave B and was advised if I could fix his BR 94. it has a sound decoder and I assume a 3 pole motor in it. I've tried different options to ascertain where the fault lies and after a few decoder exchanges found out, the sound decoder was faulty and the motor itself. later in the day I've searched the web for more information on this loco and came across the Stummi's forum with 9 pages of comments regarding the above loco and I must say I wasn't impressed, all had problems with the motor or the decoder and some had problems with the alignment of the wheels (just 2 or 3).

one thing I like to know I haven't found anything on here which would indicate any similar problems with this loco.

apparently the motor is no longer available and replacing the same type of motor was or is not an option as the same will occur. most of the comments have been made and backed up by one person who found the excessive grease used in front of the motor worm gears, when the loco is in motion, the grease enters the motor armature shaft and shortens the motor.

has anybody got any idea if there is a "new" motor available and if so what spare part number would this be.

although he bought it cheaper or cheap to replace the motor and the sound decoder will cost him quite a bit and I don't think he was prepared to go down this track with a total cost of about A$ 500.00, while I was reading the different comments on Stummi's forum I came across a website which had a Maxon motor in it and replaced it with an ESU sound decoder M4., the motor itself was about Euro 80.-- and I would think this is the way to go.

I was stunned reading about so many complaints about this loco and the several repairs forward and backwards without a positive result.

linking the turnout mechanism 74990/91 to this saga it appears Märklin has no idea how to fix things anymore, they look at it it works and they send it back and after 2 hours running the same problem occurred the motor seized again.

I feel sorry for people who highly respect Märklin products and than finish up with a lemon.


John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by river6109
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 20 June 2015 08:57:08(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
has anybody got any idea if there is a "new" motor available and if so what spare part number would this be.
I don't know about the BR 94.5-17, but in other cases the improved parts had the same spare part number.

The combination of too much grease and holes in the motor shield makes this loco a decoder killer.
You can remove excessive grease - and if the replacement motor has holes (I'm not sure they changed the shield), then you can still use glue, maybe in combination with a flat washer, to close the holes.

I read that locos coming back from Märklin had a flat washer added to them.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline river6109  
#3 Posted : 20 June 2015 10:26:41(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi!
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
has anybody got any idea if there is a "new" motor available and if so what spare part number would this be.
I don't know about the BR 94.5-17, but in other cases the improved parts had the same spare part number.

The combination of too much grease and holes in the motor shield makes this loco a decoder killer.
You can remove excessive grease - and if the replacement motor has holes (I'm not sure they changed the shield), then you can still use glue, maybe in combination with a flat washer, to close the holes.

I read that locos coming back from Märklin had a flat washer added to them.


Tom I haven't had a personal look if the motor is still available do you know is there a replacement motor ?

Motor and decoder no longer available

regards.,

John

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Shamu  
#4 Posted : 20 June 2015 11:07:00(UTC)
Shamu

Australia   
Joined: 12/07/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,068
Location: In a building site in Yeppoon
Bit of a worry, have one of these although it has only done about 10min on the rolling test stand.

Will have to remember to give it a through inspection before it gets put into regular service although I do recall Tom mentioning excessive grease in the initial run of them.
Sad when its cheaper to buy a new 29640 starter set from Germany than a CS2 on its own in Oz, welcome to the joys of Marklin down under .
Offline RayF  
#5 Posted : 20 June 2015 12:22:31(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I have two of these type, 37165 and 37166. Both run well although the 37166 makes clicking noises occasionally when running round sharp curves. I assume this is the wheel alignment issue referred to above.

As I had read about the issues with over-greasing I have not greased the worm on these locos at all since I bought them. So far there seem to be no problems so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by RayF
Offline river6109  
#6 Posted : 20 June 2015 13:15:40(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I have two of these type, 37165 and 37166. Both run well although the 37166 makes clicking noises occasionally when running round sharp curves. I assume this is the wheel alignment issue referred to above.

As I had read about the issues with over-greasing I have not greased the worm on these locos at all since I bought them. So far there seem to be no problems so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.


Ray I'll have a look and see if motors are available for your models on the spare part list, (I've just looked the same results as for the 37160) it has also come to my notice the same item sometimes has 3 different prices, e.g. front bogy for the crocodile


John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline biedmatt  
#7 Posted : 20 June 2015 13:29:21(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
It sounds like the grease is burning onto the brushes and armature causing a poor electrical connection. If it will run without load, even by coaxing it to start, you might be able to run it in a mug filled with contact cleaner and clean up the carbon deposits. We do this to restore the power to slot car motors.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
Offline H0  
#8 Posted : 20 June 2015 13:30:25(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Motor and decoder no longer available
Motor and decoder temporarily out of stock.
At €150 the decoder is grossly overpriced - you can get two MSD for that amount. Maybe you can replace it with an ESU decoder - still cheaper and sound will probably be better.
At €25 the motor is one of the cheaper Märklin spare part motors. But I don't know whether it's days, weeks, or months until it is available again.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline H0  
#9 Posted : 20 June 2015 13:36:51(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: biedmatt Go to Quoted Post
It sounds like the grease is burning onto the brushes and armature causing a poor electrical connection.
Oil or grease on the collector typically lead to carbon dust filling the gaps between the collector fields. This causes a high decoder load - theoretically the decoder has overload protection, but practically the decoder will sometimes lose the magic smoke.

Yes, maybe the motor can be salvaged with a swim in degreaser.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline biedmatt  
#10 Posted : 20 June 2015 13:39:14(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post

At €25 the motor is one of the cheaper Märklin spare part motors. But I don't know whether it's days, weeks, or months until it is available again.



As a known problem, you hope M steps up to the plate and offers the replacement motors for many years to come.

Or there is this option: http://www.sb-modellbau....15&cPath=256_27_136. They show it as a very easy replacement project without any need for machining or use of a Dremel tool. I would bet it is a much better motor than M's.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
Offline river6109  
#11 Posted : 20 June 2015 14:10:35(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: biedmatt Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post

At €25 the motor is one of the cheaper Märklin spare part motors. But I don't know whether it's days, weeks, or months until it is available again.



As a known problem, you hope M steps up to the plate and offers the replacement motors for many years to come.

Or there is this option: http://www.sb-modellbau....15&cPath=256_27_136. They show it as a very easy replacement project without any need for machining or use of a Dremel tool. I would bet it is a much better motor than M's.


this is the website I was referring to, thanks for sharing


if you think about the whole debacle, they've put an inferior motor into the loco and Märklin's way of resolving the problem is to remove the motor from the spare part list availability, case closed, be interesting to know if you send the loco in for service what you get back ? and by now it most probably be out of warranty.


John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by river6109
Offline Goofy  
#12 Posted : 21 June 2015 09:51:39(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Hi,

made contact with a Märklinist from Perth, through Dave B and was advised if I could fix his BR 94. it has a sound decoder and I assume a 3 pole motor in it. I've tried different options to ascertain where the fault lies and after a few decoder exchanges found out, the sound decoder was faulty and the motor itself. later in the day I've searched the web for more information on this loco and came across the Stummi's forum with 9 pages of comments regarding the above loco and I must say I wasn't impressed, all had problems with the motor or the decoder and some had problems with the alignment of the wheels (just 2 or 3).

one thing I like to know I haven't found anything on here which would indicate any similar problems with this loco.

apparently the motor is no longer available and replacing the same type of motor was or is not an option as the same will occur. most of the comments have been made and backed up by one person who found the excessive grease used in front of the motor worm gears, when the loco is in motion, the grease enters the motor armature shaft and shortens the motor.

has anybody got any idea if there is a "new" motor available and if so what spare part number would this be.

although he bought it cheaper or cheap to replace the motor and the sound decoder will cost him quite a bit and I don't think he was prepared to go down this track with a total cost of about A$ 500.00, while I was reading the different comments on Stummi's forum I came across a website which had a Maxon motor in it and replaced it with an ESU sound decoder M4., the motor itself was about Euro 80.-- and I would think this is the way to go.

I was stunned reading about so many complaints about this loco and the several repairs forward and backwards without a positive result.

linking the turnout mechanism 74990/91 to this saga it appears Märklin has no idea how to fix things anymore, they look at it it works and they send it back and after 2 hours running the same problem occurred the motor seized again.

I feel sorry for people who highly respect Märklin products and than finish up with a lemon.


John


Not only yours friend do have an lemon smile...
Me too!! Angry
I did also had problem with the BR64.
Return to fix the decoder and motor.
Märklin send a new locomotive,so my old are still at theirs factory.
Now problem with Bayern Trix locomotive.
The decoder is default.
Worth to return by repair??
No...

Märklin is crap!
They are not honestly for the customer.
I´m not alone to have problem with the factory name Märklin.
Come on Märklin...give up with the crap mfx decoder!!
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Goofy
Offline Sander van Wijk  
#13 Posted : 21 June 2015 10:40:40(UTC)
Sander van Wijk

Netherlands   
Joined: 20/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,248
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands; Göteborg, Sverige,
Hi John,

Quick one as I cannot contribute much on the motor: I can confirm that fitting an ESU Loksound decoder is possible, quite easy and brings a major improvement in sound quality and running characteristics (with the original motor). Only challenge is to get the ESU decoder to sit firmly onto the Märklin 21pole board. Even though the pins align nicely, they do not 'grab', so you might need to fiddle a little to make it work. Worth it, though.

I hope you can find the right motor for it!

Cheers,
Sander
---
Era I(b): K.Bay.Sts.B. and K.W.St.E.
Offline river6109  
#14 Posted : 22 June 2015 17:52:40(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: Sander van Wijk Go to Quoted Post
Hi John,

Quick one as I cannot contribute much on the motor: I can confirm that fitting an ESU Loksound decoder is possible, quite easy and brings a major improvement in sound quality and running characteristics (with the original motor). Only challenge is to get the ESU decoder to sit firmly onto the Märklin 21pole board. Even though the pins align nicely, they do not 'grab', so you might need to fiddle a little to make it work. Worth it, though.

I hope you can find the right motor for it!

Cheers,


Have written to Märklin regarding the motor or a replacement motor, new motor and see what their answer will be

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by river6109
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