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Offline ckreling  
#1 Posted : 04 April 2015 01:11:12(UTC)
ckreling


Joined: 21/04/2008(UTC)
Posts: 98
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Hello all

I sent a strongly worded letter to Marklin NA here in the US. I want to see how other Insider Club members feel about seeing prior year's Insider Club items being sold at clearance prices by Marklin and their US distributor.

I had noticed this last year and wrote Marklin and now it is happening again. There are at least 3 items, one of which is the red locomotive only available to Insider 10 year members.

My position is that we as club embers have to reserve the models at near full price and order by a deadline or we supposedly cannot get them.

While it is just fine to have individuals sell their models on eBay, this forum or whatever I find it very disappointing that Marklin and their duly appointed distributors are allowed to do this to loyal club members.

I look forward to hearing what others think of this practice.

If you look at the recent sale you will see the following being cleared out.....

37082 Insider Locomotive Class 10 DB (10 Year membership only item )
37778 Insider DB class 403 Railcar
81175 Insider V 200 Express Train Set

This has me strongly thinking of quitting both the Marklin and Trix clubs of which I have been a member for over 15 years.

Charles
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 04 April 2015 08:16:59(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Hi, Charles!
Originally Posted by: ckreling Go to Quoted Post
My position is that we as club embers have to reserve the models at near full price and order by a deadline or we supposedly cannot get them.
That's the theory. Selling practise proofed the theory wrong year after year.

It seems new management reduced over-production, thus reducing the need for clearance sales.

Walthers was promoted from "exclusive distributor" to "strategic partner" and maybe they decided to reduce their stock.
No need to make a clearance sale on the 10 year model. The other models you mention are from the over-production era.

I left the club last year after seven years. If you are only disturbed about the clearance sales and lack of exclusivity, then maybe things will get better under new management.
OTOH I do not regret leaving the club.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline foumaro  
#3 Posted : 04 April 2015 11:58:45(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,420
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
I am not an insider,i have no reason.I bought all the insider models i wanted very easily and for perfect prices on ebay.de.BigGrin
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Offline SteamNut  
#4 Posted : 04 April 2015 13:24:14(UTC)
SteamNut

United States   
Joined: 11/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 488
Walthers does sell discounted Marklin items but usually the items are defected due to shipping. They also do this with other products.
Offline kimballthurlow  
#5 Posted : 04 April 2015 22:13:45(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,653
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: ckreling Go to Quoted Post
Hello all
... I want to see how other Insider Club members feel about seeing prior year's Insider Club items being sold at clearance prices by Marklin and their US distributor.
... one of which is the red locomotive only available to Insider 10 year members.
....37082 Insider Locomotive Class 10 DB (10 Year membership only item )
.....This has me strongly thinking of quitting both the Marklin and Trix clubs of which I have been a member for over 15 years.
Charles


Hi Charles,
I share your concern about the 10 Year model.
It would have been far more discreet for Walthers to return that item to Marklin at Goppingen.
Is it being offered only to members who have got the 10 years, at a special price??

As for the other models, my view is that if a reasonable time has elapsed (2+ years) it is OK to offer them at a discount.
I reserve the Insider model if I have a passion for it, which is the usual reason for acquiring a full price "toy for a boy" without delay.

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline mike c  
#6 Posted : 04 April 2015 23:59:01(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
Since many of the items in the Walthers' clearance sale were available in very limited quantity, in some cases there was just 1 in stock, I do not see a problem with them selling a MHI or Insider Club model as part of that clearance. Most likely, that item was ordered as a special order for one dealer, but that dealer never completed the order and the item remained in inventory at Walthers since. It is not Walthers' problem that the dealer never went through with the order.
In a perfect world, they should have sent out an email to Insider Club members in the USA/Canada and let them know that there was a model available before offering it to all dealers, but the next best solution was to offer it to all dealers who then passed on the offer as part of the clearance sale.
For Walthers to return a single item to Germany would cost $50. They are trying to recover the money that they already spent on this item and adding $50 to that is not something that any shop would do.

As that item was limited and might have been of interest to collectors, I wonder if it was offered to dealers over time at full price before the sale or whether it was offered only when it came out and has just sat there since?

Regards

Mike C
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#7 Posted : 05 April 2015 02:05:44(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,653
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
.....
For Walthers to return a single item to Germany would cost $50. They are trying to recover the money that they already spent on this item and adding $50 to that is not something that any shop would do........
Regards

Mike C


Hi Mike,
No of course not.
If it was returned it would be as part of a batch.
But anyway, Marklin's arrangement with Walthers (which would be commercial in confidence) may specifically exclude returns.
In which case Walthers are compensated in other ways.

It would be better for the item to be smashed up, or discarded, which does happen in many industries.
So what would Insiders prefer!?

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline analogmike  
#8 Posted : 05 April 2015 03:58:39(UTC)
analogmike

United States   
Joined: 02/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 737
Location: NEW JERSEY, USA
Originally Posted by: ckreling Go to Quoted Post
Hello all

I sent a strongly worded letter to Marklin NA here in the US. I want to see how other Insider Club members feel about seeing prior year's Insider Club items being sold at clearance prices by Marklin and their US distributor.

I had noticed this last year and wrote Marklin and now it is happening again. There are at least 3 items, one of which is the red locomotive only available to Insider 10 year members.

My position is that we as club embers have to reserve the models at near full price and order by a deadline or we supposedly cannot get them.

While it is just fine to have individuals sell their models on eBay, this forum or whatever I find it very disappointing that Marklin and their duly appointed distributors are allowed to do this to loyal club members.

I look forward to hearing what others think of this practice.

If you look at the recent sale you will see the following being cleared out.....

37082 Insider Locomotive Class 10 DB (10 Year membership only item )
37778 Insider DB class 403 Railcar
81175 Insider V 200 Express Train Set

This has me strongly thinking of quitting both the Marklin and Trix clubs of which I have been a member for over 15 years.

Charles


hello Charles; i think that all of these "insider", "gold club", "super collector member", clubs are all b*llsh*t!!!!!! they are nothing more than a vehicle to funnel more of your money into a company that wants to suck as much money as it possibly can out of a "loyal consumer". i buy all of my m-trains used and second hand. all of the items that are branded "limited edition" and "future collectible" when they are released is just a ruse to attract buyers. nobody can predict a true classic collectible....especialy if it's made in gina. mike
I love the smell of smoke fluid in the morning .
Offline RayF  
#9 Posted : 05 April 2015 13:31:48(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
These items being cleared out are likely to be available only in small quantities, if not single items. Selling these at discounted prices is unlikely to affect the value of the items already in collector's hands.

I prefer unsold items being sold at a discount to the other option of finding them years later still stocked in shops at prices which will ensure they will never be sold. I have seen Delta locomotives still forming part of some dealer's stocks at their original prices. This is madness!

Sorry Kimball, but the proposal that they should be smashed up if not sold just smacks of vandalism to me.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#10 Posted : 05 April 2015 14:43:42(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
I would wonder which year the Br10 was made, as for the first few years they had an fx decoder, more recent ones have an mfx decoder. Someone with a Kolls could tell us when the change happened.

Offline steventrain  
#11 Posted : 05 April 2015 15:03:36(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,601
Location: United Kingdom
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
I would wonder which year the Br10 was made, as for the first few years they had an fx decoder, more recent ones have an mfx decoder. Someone with a Kolls could tell us when the change happened.



Fx decoder date from 2003 to 2007.

Change to MFX decoder with extra functions from 2007 to present - Koll special book
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline ckreling  
#12 Posted : 06 April 2015 22:28:42(UTC)
ckreling


Joined: 21/04/2008(UTC)
Posts: 98
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
All

Thank you for the varied opinions and positions.

Probably the one opinion that hit home is that I am likely to leave the club membership and just purchase Insider items on Ebay similar to that person's experience.

I pinged Marklin NA again today asking if I would hear anything back from my letter. I'll keep you all posted.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Charles
Offline Webmaster  
#13 Posted : 07 April 2015 19:32:04(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,161
One quite common practice among dealers is:

Do you want this year's Insider Loco?
If you answer no, they can still order one "for you" and sell to others who want it.
I think this practice is acceptable, and really don't mind about it.

Trouble is when the items are uninteresting for others too, then they will be shelf queens, finally discounted just to get moved...
Then all the ones who were really interested originally and paid "full price" will be envious and sometimes upset too.
However, it is a choice you make to secure a wanted model that you like if you don't want to wait until it turns up cheaper on ebay and such.

I presume Walthers have done just this - ordered locos for all Insider members in the US and have discounted some unwanted ones
now since they have got some shelf queens that are not moved fast enough.


I myself have lot of more "certificates" for special/Insider models than I have actually ordered... Wink
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
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Offline ckreling  
#14 Posted : 07 April 2015 21:11:49(UTC)
ckreling


Joined: 21/04/2008(UTC)
Posts: 98
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
I would not be OK with the practice you mention because it basically invalidates the premise of the Insider club - only paying members with a valid order form can have one. I see your point but it just makes me want to quit the club and become 'one of those others who can buy it' perhaps at even a better price.
Offline RayF  
#15 Posted : 07 April 2015 21:39:07(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
In theory it's a nice idea that only paid-up members of the Insider Club can be owners of these special locos.

In practice it's impossible to police. There will always be people who will sell them on ebay to make a profit, and dealers who are left with these locos on their shelves would be penalised financially if they were not able to sell their excess stock.

At least the Insider members get a first crack at the whip!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline ckreling  
#16 Posted : 09 April 2015 01:34:44(UTC)
ckreling


Joined: 21/04/2008(UTC)
Posts: 98
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
I'm OK with Insiders selling their locos to anyone they want for whatever they want. I draw the line at Marklin and their authorized distributors and dealers. There should be no over purchase of the Insider items by the dealers. They order well in advance and club members are obligating themselves via the form to complete the purchase.
Offline mike c  
#17 Posted : 09 April 2015 05:49:20(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
The privilege extended to Insider Members is that upon submission of the Insider Coupon, a copy of the model offered is reserved for that member and can be paid for and pick up at their designated dealer. The dealers receive the coupons from the members and remit them to Maerklin, either directly or through the national distributor. The company then sends an invoice to the dealer for the quantity ordered. That amount is then due, either to Goeppingen in case of direct shipment or to the distributor according to the terms. Once the model has been released, those items are sent to the dealer by special delivery and are then distributed to the members.
Some dealers may require their customers to pay either a deposit or pay in full at the time of reservation. Others may allow customers to pay on pick up.
The problem occurs when customers back out and the items are either left setting at the dealer or at the distributor. Normally, it should not be difficult to find a customer to buy such a limited item at full price, but if the item is not announced as available or if the item was returned for repair and was then declined by the customer, it might remain in inventory until such a time that the dealer or distributor decides to let it go at a discount to recover his losses.
Instead of blaming the dealer or distributor for offering these single items on sale, why don't people complain about other Insiders who fail to honour their pledge to buy the item in the first place?

Just a thought.

Regards

Mike C
Offline H0  
#18 Posted : 09 April 2015 08:10:02(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
Instead of blaming the dealer or distributor for offering these single items on sale, why don't people complain about other Insiders who fail to honour their pledge to buy the item in the first place?
When a new Insider Model starts shipping, you find tons of them on eBay - and below the RRP. Many Insiders who gave their coupon to the dealer are still waiting while Outsiders can already buy the loco cheaply on fleaBay.
These are not just coming from Insiders who stepped back or died between order and delivery. These are locos that were bought by dealers to sell them to outsiders.

Insider members can place a reservation for their personal Insider Model (sounds great). But dealers can get spare locos for the free market.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline kiwiAlan  
#19 Posted : 09 April 2015 13:33:36(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
Instead of blaming the dealer or distributor for offering these single items on sale, why don't people complain about other Insiders who fail to honour their pledge to buy the item in the first place?
When a new Insider Model starts shipping, you find tons of them on eBay - and below the RRP. Many Insiders who gave their coupon to the dealer are still waiting while Outsiders can already buy the loco cheaply on fleaBay.
These are not just coming from Insiders who stepped back or died between order and delivery. These are locos that were bought by dealers to sell them to outsiders.

Insider members can place a reservation for their personal Insider Model (sounds great). But dealers can get spare locos for the free market.


It will be interesting to see if this gets clamped down on. They seem to have recently stopped (as in the last year or so) dealers from being able to buy Museum wagons and selling them on, so I wonder if this will happen to the Insider items.

Having said that, I have asked my dealer to try and get me the Trix 24221 15 year Anniversary Car (a rather nice Era I tank wagon) even though I haven't been a Profi Club member for 15 years, and I know my Marklin Insider membership has been used to supply someone with an Insider Br96, as I ended up with the certificate, even though I have never ever ordered any Insider Z gauge items.

So there is always a way around some of these restrictions, and some of them require acquiescence of the membership.

As a P.S. to this, the illustration of this wagon in the catalogue illustrates why Trix have been able to continue producing Trix Express items, with the change of wheel and an NEM mounted coupling as the only changes from the standard Trix HO item.
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