I told Ian about the T800(4) I saw for sale, but he don't want her.

I called a Dutch collector 15 minutes ago, to check if the asking price (€ 450) is reasonable.

He told me that this 1947 T800 (version 4) Steamloco were sold 3 years ago for € 800 - € 1000, but now the market for 800 series Marklin has dramatically collapsed for different reasons, and prices dropped about 25% and even more.
He told me that the value off a T800(4) without the original carton box is nowadays € 500 - € 600, so the asking price seems super reasonable.

Edited by user 17 July 2012 14:25:51(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Marco,
the pictures show the difference between

T 800



and T 790 with the handle for the reserve switch




Wolf

Wolf,

Thanks for this superb information !!
Did not know that.
Is the asking price € 450 reasonable??

Marco

Wolf,
On the left side of the loco is an inscription T800 !! (see my pictures).
So, people like me think it is a T800.
I have no doubt that the shop owner also believes it is a T800.

But you are 100% right that it is a T790.
A T790 seems to have an T800 inscription.....quit strange.

I Think the value is almost the same as a T800, and the asking price € 450 is reasonable.
I also told Ian that I think the price is maybe a little bit negotiable, and the shop is maybe OK with € 400,00 (not sure about that).

Marco

Hi Marco,

I agree the price for this T 790 is too high and it was definitely restored (not correctly). In addition to the possible filling of holes from Zincpest the pick-up shoe was replaced (should be spoon type I think? Although in 1950 I guess a slider would be okay?) and some of the wheels don't look correct or were re-attached.

It is a good loco to start with but a good / fair price would be in the 200 - 300 EUR range. T 790 / T 800 locos are pretty common. The earliest T 800 and the gray T 790 are a little bit more rare but I couldn't ever see them selling in the 800 - 100 EUR range unless it was at some crazy auction house.

25% drop in 800-series locos? I don't see much basis for that. The EUR / USD conversion rate has changed things up a bit but the market in Europe is stable (the market for trains that is!). The introduction of many replicas / reproductions has brought prices down a bit, but hardly noticeable. The key is to know what is original and what is not

Best,

Paul

Paul,

Thanks a lot for the excellent info on the so called T800.
Maybe I show the shop owner this topic tomorrow.

As you know I just starting to collect Marklin 1950s-1960s 5 weeks ago.

About 2 months ago I found your fantastic Marklin Stop Website.
I really like that site and spent the hole day on it !
After that, I found this forum and the topic of Wolf about the 1939 Leipzig Toyfaire layout, and became a member.

It is great that now your both helping me, for example why not to buy this not so good and not so lovely T790 for € 450.

T H A N K S !!!



marco

Edited by user 17 July 2012 21:47:49(UTC)  | Reason: correction/spelling

Marco,

We can thank members for the knowledge and more importantly having models on hand to compare them with anybody thinking of purchasing older type locos and you have found the right place and have done the right thing of telling us of your proposed purchase.
I find it so many times and sometimes for different reasons, whereas members buy locos or accessories at a blown up price or buying parts they don't need.
I hope more members will read this and ask the panlel of experts first (hopefully with some pictures attached) for advice, it will save you al lot of unpleasant memories.

another hint of advice: buying older models either pre war or after that period, make sure the item you buy is original and don't think your purchase is just an investment, it doesn't give you a return for your money. if you think you are investing into trains and you are happy to make 50 dollars after 10 years, i rather buy a fruit tree and sell the fruit after 3 years at a considerable higher price than buying a loco, let it sit for 10 years and most probably you want sell it after this period because you've got attached to it and owning a model like this its always nice to have but in my book its not an investment.

John

Hi Wolf,

Thanks for the photo's of those wonderful Loco's.

Ian.

Hi all,

I went to the shop again this morning, spoke with somebody who's working there (not the owner) and sent a very polite email with a small list what is wrong with the loco (Not T800, Zincpest, repainted etc).
Also wrote that I'm not happy that they want to sell that horror loco to me for € 450, because I'm a good returning client of the shop (who spend > € 3000 last year on lots of C tracks, turnouts, loco's, Faller, books, magazines).

Told them in the email that I think the value of the loco is € 150 because of the zincpest and repainting.

I'm a bit mad because the owner told me yesterday several times that € 450 was a really good deal.

I hope to receive the answer that I can buy the Loco for € 150,00.

That are nicely spoken wise words Paul.

And maybe you are right and was the owner really thinking it was a good deal, but I'm not quit sure of that now.

I had my own shop in Holland for many years and did a lot of buying and selling, not model railroad, but live tropical fish.
But now I know buying old Marklin is something completely different, and I have a lot to learn.

Thanks again for your help and advise.

Marco

Marco,

Lets put it this way.

Dealers are running a business to buy and sell trains, for instance there is a seller in the US who sells a single k-track for $ 195.00 obvious it is a mistake but you never know one may buy it for this price and there are also numerous posts on this forum about weird prices, a Mobile station with 9999 addresses for $ 379.00.

Another advice or suggestion I would make, you can't trust anybody with prices these days and as I said before you've done the right thing and checked with the forum first.
You have to find out if this seller or dealer is as honest as you think or as commited to trains as you are and there are buyers they only want hear what they've already got in their mind, I have to have it and the logic and sensible decision making is out the door.

Take stock of your situation and even re-calculate your purchases from this dealer (tracks etc. etc.) with other dealers.
I know there are members who support their local shop but if it is a money matter ( I don't think this cancelled purchase was) you may look somewhere else for your hobby purchases.

This is why I've stated in my earlier posts, investing in trains is not always the answer and especially when the price is already out of proportions.

regards.,

John

Hi all,

As a "newbie" to buying the early 1930's to 50's Märklin, I'd like to take this oppurtunity to thank the forum members that are keeping me on the right track, and sharing their wealth of knowledge with us all.

Thankyou.

Ian.

Hi Marco,
I appreciate very much your (underlined) statements !!!

Wolf

The last 5 weeks a bought 350 pieces of 1947-1953 solid centre rail track for my new 1950 layout.
And now this afternoon I bought a proper Loco that belongs on this 1950s track.

YES !! I bought the super sweet and lovely 1950 T790 (2) !!

It took me 3 days and several phone calls and some visits and emails with Frank, the owner of the Dutch shop "De Houtloods".

The loco was there for sale for 5 years, but Frank never found a buyer (because his asking price was not OK).

I really wanted this sweet 62 years old loco, but I also don't wanted to pay € 450 for it.

This afternoon Frank and me opened the T790 in his shop, because no matter what we did, the T790 didn't want to ride 1cm today. Two days ago the loc ride, but not today.
We give her some new brushes and a proper oil job, and now the loco runs just fine.
And really no zincpest at all, only the red is a little bit repainted.

And I think you all want to know... I paid € 220,00 for her.

I found out that Frank is a fantastic nice person (and an ex-tropical fish breeder, just like me).

Edited by user 19 July 2012 21:15:15(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Marco wrote:

I'm 46, but I worked 30 years in the tropical fish business as a breeder and seller, before I had my own shop, I worked in different fish shops as an employee.

What machine did you use to make chips ?

John

Hi Marco,
congratulations for an excellent deal !!!
Very nice and reliable loco with the old 700-technique !!
Your black loco is version 2 , built 1950, now look for version 1 from 1949 (bit more expensive)
To show you the difference in colour I attach a picture.
Regards Wolf

Hi Marco,

Yes, they are so different, and yet the same, they are both Märklin.

My oldest Loco is a 1954 BR23 DA800, so I will have to start looking for something to run on my late 1930's layout.

I do have one loco that is older, an (approx.) 1927 O gauge clockwork R950.

Ian.

Wolf,

Thanks !!

Again that I a really lovely photo of your 16 sleeper moba.
Your T790 (2) looks in a bit better condition than mine.
I don't think I'm going to buy a 790 (1), because I prefer the black color, and not so much the grey.

Finding a T800 that I can afford would be nice , or even better a RS790

I fell in love on this Eloc after your previous pictures of those super sweet machines.

Thanks again for your lessons and your help with buying this loco.

Schöne Grüße aus Holland!
marco

Edited by user 20 July 2012 08:15:16(UTC)  | Reason: correction / spelling

I did the first temporally repair on the T790.
The ski pick up shoe that was on it, was bended and I replaced it for a small one

The wheels are in poor condition, and one wheel is not original and really ugly.
The wheels spins badly, they don't have any grip on the tracks.
The loco can't pull anything and cannot clime.
This is not caused by thy pick up shoe and is also not caused by dirty slippery wheels or track.
I Cleaned the wheels and track with alcohol to find out.
The wheels are not designed for anti slip rubbers, so anti slip tires can't be mounted.

I'm going to restore the loco in a proper way.
All the parts are for sale at Ritter, also new wheels and the original tongue sliders, that belongs on this loco. And even the original color paint !! Wow !!!

http://www.ritter-restaurationen.de/

In the past I restored a few Kreidler 50cc motorcycles, so a restoration project is not completely new for me.

Edited by user 21 July 2012 09:17:55(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Thanks Wolf, I think that can be done with a "poelie trekker" or "Abziehvorrichtung".
I only now the Dutch and German words for that tool.

I have got quit a few, but only big heavy duty ones, now I need a really small one.

But I will ask Ritter if they can do it for me.

This afternoon me and my son Stefan did a little test ride with the T790 on our temporally layout "Schönblick".

I cleaned the wheels again and agian, and the slipping is now reduced a little bit.

We made a little video. (Our (5) cats are normally not allowed in our train room).

Edited by user 21 July 2012 17:11:48(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Thanks Steven !!
It is my first video here.

Just another comment I forgot in my previous reply: in theory one can cut the grooves in the wheels to install adherence tires (I have the lathe special attachments to perform it, and done many time) but I would advise against doing this an a 4 wheeled loco, as your power pick up may be (and will be!) negatively impacted.

However, attaching an old style, 1950's all metal coach or car behind it , would greatly enhance performance....but not so obviously with a plastic chassis and couplers like on today's vehicles!

Cheers

Hello Marco

The RS 790 is a super loco just like the RS 800 N and the ES 800. They are great runners and very simple, both on the inside and on the outside.

For your T 790 I would go for some old freight tinplate wagons, just like the ones from the starter set T 790/3. Here is my RS 790/3 starter set:



Very simple and yet very beautiful.

Regards,
Thor

Hi Thor,

Your set is indeed a masterpiece.
Thanks for the info and and photo

I have a few things on my (loco)wish list.
And the RS790 is at the top, followed by T800 on number 2 and number 3 is a 3025.
Maybe it takes me a few years, but one day they will ride on my layout.

Marco