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Offline cos_man  
#1 Posted : 20 December 2004 12:27:00(UTC)
cos_man

Greece   
Joined: 26/05/2003(UTC)
Posts: 148
Location: Athens, Greece
Hello all.
I just received my 37050 Insider BR 05 Loc. I must say it's very detailed and a real beauty.
What worries me is the very low inertia of the Ironless/Coreless motor that it seems to be equipped with.
All my other locos when are stationary are quite difficult to move by hand. This one is so light that I feel that the pulling of coupled coaches (let's say on a helix or a gradient) might push or pull it to level track again.
Has anyone noticed this behavior on this loc or another faulhabber one? Did other forum members that got this loc noticed the same?
Your thoughts and experience will be very much appreciated.

I wish to all A Very Merry Christmass and a Great New Year.

Costas
Offline digilox1  
#2 Posted : 20 December 2004 13:08:48(UTC)
digilox1


Joined: 28/05/2003(UTC)
Posts: 719
Location: ,
Costas,
Experienced the same with my Württ. C models. This phenomenon also
was mentioned in a couple of loco reviews in the past.

Regards,
Mnafred
Offline cos_man  
#3 Posted : 20 December 2004 13:45:10(UTC)
cos_man

Greece   
Joined: 26/05/2003(UTC)
Posts: 148
Location: Athens, Greece
Manfred,
In your case did the loco manage to keep the attached cars still on some incline or got draged downhill by them?

Costas
Offline john black  
#4 Posted : 20 December 2004 15:06:09(UTC)
john black

United States   
Joined: 21/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by cos_man
<br />loco got dragged downhill by cars ...


Costas, such really happened ?

John

I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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Offline jorge_vilarrubi  
#5 Posted : 20 December 2004 15:44:11(UTC)
jorge_vilarrubi


Joined: 15/12/2003(UTC)
Posts: 644
Location: Buenos Aires,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by cos_man
<br />Hello all.
What worries me is the very low inertia of the Ironless/Coreless motor that it seems to be equipped with.

Hello Costas, I've installed Uhlenbrock 76500 in several Faulhi Loks to resolve the low inertia/poor regulation problem inherent to original decoders.
Customer satisfaction is high with 76500.
Best regards.
Jorge Vilarrubí
Buenos Aires
ARGENTINA
Offline john black  
#6 Posted : 20 December 2004 19:03:38(UTC)
john black

United States   
Joined: 21/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
Generally viewed it's a shame you have to install another decoder at your own expense for one of M's top prized locos running flawlessy ... [xx(]

John

I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
UserPostedImage
Offline jorge_vilarrubi  
#7 Posted : 20 December 2004 20:27:23(UTC)
jorge_vilarrubi


Joined: 15/12/2003(UTC)
Posts: 644
Location: Buenos Aires,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by john black
<br />Generally viewed it's a shame you have to install another decoder at your own expense for one of M's top prized locos running flawlessy ... [xx(]

John



Yes John, you're absolutely right.
Jorge Vilarrubí
Buenos Aires
ARGENTINA
Offline john black  
#8 Posted : 20 December 2004 21:17:28(UTC)
john black

United States   
Joined: 21/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
Thanks, Jorge

John

I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
UserPostedImage
Offline cos_man  
#9 Posted : 21 December 2004 09:59:26(UTC)
cos_man

Greece   
Joined: 26/05/2003(UTC)
Posts: 148
Location: Athens, Greece
John, by Financial Director's Instructions, I have to finish redecorating a couple of rooms before I will be able to start building my first layout ( But I did manage to reserve a room for my trains on our new home !!).
Hence what I did was to set up a small oval on the dinning table when I got home, to check that the Loco was running ok. As soon as I can I will probably put some C-track on a piece of wood, incline the wood on different gradients and let you know of my experiences.

Jorge, you mean that replacing the Marklin decoder to a UL 76500 will create inertia (i.e. braking when stationary or without power)??
What happens to the sound circuit installed in the 37050? Do I have to remove it as well or is it possible to keep it with the 76500 decoder ? If this is the case, IMHO is really bad that we have to replace a decoder on a brand new loco to be able to use it on track that is not level.

Costas
Offline jorge_vilarrubi  
#10 Posted : 21 December 2004 12:43:16(UTC)
jorge_vilarrubi


Joined: 15/12/2003(UTC)
Posts: 644
Location: Buenos Aires,
Hi Costas, an U76500 will simulate inertia at acceleration and deceleration time.
If the Lok doesn't hold when you set it at 0 speed, you should adjust min. speed (CV2) at a small value enough for the Lok to remain in place but not moving (You'll not necessarily achieve this...).
In regards to the sound, you can replace the entire system by a Loksound or you can alternatively leave the original sound in place and use the 76500 for the motor only.
If you have an IB, you can have two different addresses and drive both together using the Consisting option.
Have fun...
Regards.
Jorge Vilarrubí
Buenos Aires
ARGENTINA
Offline john black  
#11 Posted : 21 December 2004 17:53:32(UTC)
john black

United States   
Joined: 21/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by cos_man
<br />John, by Financial Director's Instructions, I have to finish redecorating a couple of rooms before I will be able to start building my first layout ( But I did manage to reserve a room for my trains on our new home !!)


Costas, I know very well what you mean - we all got our bundle ... biggrin
But at least you got that room, now, and can do some advanced planning. BTW, one sole room for trains is just great SmileSmileSmile !!!
I wish you can begin your layout soon [:p]

Have fun !
John

I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
UserPostedImage
Offline Guus  
#12 Posted : 23 December 2004 11:12:34(UTC)
Guus

Netherlands   
Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,616
Hi Costas,
I received mine also this month.It is a real beauty indeed and I like the running characteristics of the Faulhaber engine as much as that of the C-sinus engine.

Nice detail: got mine as a birthday present from my wife.She intercepted the delivery of the loco in september and the dealer,who was in the plot, kept telling me you never know when *M* sends her orders Smile

originally posted by Costas:
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Has anyone noticed this behavior on this loc or another faulhabber one?


I have noticed this behaviour as well and it is a much discussed topic on the German Insider Forum.
Will check mine on a gradient and see what happens.

Best Regards
Guus
Kind regards,
Guus
Offline Charlie  
#13 Posted : 23 December 2004 19:32:15(UTC)
Charlie


Joined: 15/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 706
Location: Texas, USA
Guus,

Many of the single guys on this forum may wonder if your wife has a sister who is still single wink

Groetjes,

Charlie
Offline digilox1  
#14 Posted : 23 December 2004 23:35:52(UTC)
digilox1


Joined: 28/05/2003(UTC)
Posts: 719
Location: ,
Costas,
In a 5% incline with no power applied it can hardly hold its own weight...

This applies to the Württ. C. I guess with the BR 05 it`s even worse,
due to the additional weight of this big loco.

Regards,
Manfred
Offline cos_man  
#15 Posted : 24 December 2004 09:08:22(UTC)
cos_man

Greece   
Joined: 26/05/2003(UTC)
Posts: 148
Location: Athens, Greece
John,
yes it is good to have one sole room for trains, it is only 2.8m by 3.8m large but it should be OK. On the other hand you know us Model Railroaders..... Show me a great room and I will start dreaming and designing a layout that will need double of the available space again wink.

Guus,
What a great birthday presentbiggrin. As I understand it your wife is comfortable about your "Trains madness" that you as well as everybody here suffers from.Smile BTW you mentioned the German Insider Forum. Is this the Marklin.de insider forum? Did the people there came up with a good solution?

Manfred,
have you also tested your Wortt. C on the same 5% incline with "negative" power applied (I mean the power supplied by a brake module to make the decoder brake and wait for the signal to turn to green again) ?
What I also noticed is that if the loco is pulling some coaches up an incline the decoder will provide more "power" to adjust for the "drag" of the coaches and try to keep the speed steady. If the loco reaches the "top" of the incline and start to go down again it's speed may increase due to the "push" of the coaches )it seems the decoder cannot "brake" and keep the speed steady ??!!)

Costas
Offline digilox1  
#16 Posted : 24 December 2004 09:35:06(UTC)
digilox1


Joined: 28/05/2003(UTC)
Posts: 719
Location: ,
Costas,
Sorry, I think I won`t expose the loco to that sort of stress...
By the way, my models are a 3611 and a 3614, without the load compensation of the 37xx series.

What I tried was shoving the locos by hand with zero speed
against the direction that was selected at the controller, with the track powered.
I think I felt some more distinct hesitation than when pushing the locos in the direction set to at the controller.

Load compensated decoders should handle the problem of a running
engine, but I don`t know what the decoders mean to the suggestion of using them as dynamic brakes when at a standstill. Same applies to the Faulhaber which is no stepper motor.

Hopefully our electronic experts can shed some light on this issue.

Regards,
Manfred
Offline Guus  
#17 Posted : 24 December 2004 10:21:05(UTC)
Guus

Netherlands   
Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,616
originally posted by Costas:
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:BTW you mentioned the German Insider Forum. Is this the Marklin.de insider forum? Did the people there came up with a good solution?

Yes Costas that is the Märklin.de Forum I'm refering to.The way I understand it ,the problem has not been solved yet and the discussions are about the decoder behaviour, just like Manfred already mentioned here in this topic.

I'm still dreaming about a nice layout and I have some attempts in designing them with Märklin Trackplanning [:I].With the braking problem in mind ,I will only opt for level stop sections.

Originally posted by Charlie:
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Many of the single guys on this forum may wonder if your wife has a sister who is still single


I hate to disappoint you Charlie [:I],but she is unique ,no sisters [:(].

Best Regards
Guus
Kind regards,
Guus
Offline foumaro  
#18 Posted : 31 December 2004 17:55:40(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 3,559
Location: ATHENS-GREECE
I notice this problem with the loco.I thing that it
happens because of the motor.The motor is looks like
the motor that the 37450 insider have but is is not
the same and the 37450 have not this behavior.
HUPPY NEW YEAR FROM GREECE.
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