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Offline john black  
#1 Posted : 30 April 2004 19:31:38(UTC)
john black

United States   
Joined: 21/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
Hi all:

Heard from one M dealer yesterday that old transformers from the eighties (blue plastic shell) could be dangerous !!! (so M had to replace them)
IS THAT TRUE confusedconfusedconfusedconfusedconfusedconfused

Can't imagine why ... new laws in European Community perhaps ...
John



I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
UserPostedImage
Offline Gregor  
#2 Posted : 30 April 2004 20:49:39(UTC)
Gregor

Netherlands   
Joined: 17/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 718
Location: Netherlands
Mmmmm, hope not. I have seven of them. Did your dealer give no indication about the type of danger ?

Gregor
Offline chris.busby  
#3 Posted : 01 May 2004 01:56:40(UTC)
chris.busby


Joined: 08/05/2002(UTC)
Posts: 138
Location: ,
I have a number of transformers going back over 50 years (some in open valve radios)! Yes, they are lethal - by modern standards. They need an earth, they get warm (not hot) they have exposed windings, they have no short circuit protection, they are no hermeticaly sealed, they have metal frames, and some I have will pump out kilovolts for valves. In short, if you do something stupid with them they will bite back. However, treat them with respect and they are fine.

The modern transformers are too safe. They will cut out at the slightest sign of an overload or short, just when you need that extra bit of oommph.

The old ones are safe, BUT TREAT THEM WITH RESPECT!

It sounds like Märklin are getting worried about the possiblity of someone taking them to court because they put their transformer in the bath and it electrocuted themwink

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by john black
<br />Hi all:

Heard from one M dealer yesterday that old transformers from the eighties (blue plastic shell) could be dangerous !!! (so M had to replace them)
IS THAT TRUE confusedconfusedconfusedconfusedconfusedconfused

Can't imagine why ... new laws in European Community perhaps ...
John




Chris Busby
UK Marklin Digital layout builder and collector.
Offline Frostie  
#4 Posted : 01 May 2004 02:09:59(UTC)
Frostie

United States   
Joined: 08/08/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,614
Location: Birmingham,Alabama
Maybe they were dangerous to the dealers ability to make a sale !!
Train Collection Insured by "Croc's" with "Big Boys" as Backup"
CS/MS Digital Era 1/2
Apple Man iPhone / Macbook Pro / iPad - the end of the windows PC occurred on April 4, 2010.

Love those Era 1 Tank Locomotives - the more the merrier.




Offline franciscohg  
#5 Posted : 01 May 2004 03:07:19(UTC)
franciscohg

Chile   
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,555
Location: Patagonia
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Frostie
<br />Maybe they were dangerous to the dealers ability to make a sale !!


No doubt about it, is far more convenient to not have a piece of eternal
machinery...........
UserPostedImage German trains era I-II, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD
Offline john black  
#6 Posted : 01 May 2004 12:59:55(UTC)
john black

United States   
Joined: 21/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
Hi Gregor, Chris, Robert, Francisco:
Hi all:

Many thanks for your detailed advice - you gave me back that "safe feeling" SmileSmileSmile
Owning three of the blue ones since 1984 - which I always treated with the highest respect and never had any troubles - I felt a little bit uneasy, could not say why. No, the dealer had no idea about the specific type of danger, he was told so by M several years ago ... [xx(] Talk about sales department policy ...

Regards
John
I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
UserPostedImage
Offline Rocca  
#7 Posted : 01 May 2004 18:38:42(UTC)
Rocca


Joined: 28/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 578
Location: ,
Hi Gregor, Chris, John, Robert, Francisco

I have always heard from my dealer that the old Trafo are all safe. I have a 6511 item (16 VA) and it is well!!

Bye bye
Stefano

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by john black
<br />Hi Gregor, Chris, Robert, Francisco:
Hi all:

Many thanks for your detailed advice - you gave me back that "safe feeling" SmileSmileSmile
Owning three of the blue ones since 1984 - which I always treated with the highest respect and never had any troubles - I felt a little bit uneasy, could not say why. No, the dealer had no idea about the specific type of danger, he was told so by M several years ago ... [xx(] Talk about sales department policy ...

Regards
John

Offline dikken  
#8 Posted : 01 May 2004 20:06:45(UTC)
dikken


Joined: 22/10/2003(UTC)
Posts: 376
Location: blankenberge,
Hi All,

Mârklin trafo are safe!!! As long as you treat them accordingly. M had to produce a new kind in order to comply with the new EU regulations. Now they can put the CE mark on there products.

Same for the K83(?). Those are now supllied with a type new connector bus. Together with the new plugs, there can be no accidental contact with the current.

On the old types you still had a metal ring visible (and touchable).

The EU keeps the business going!!!!!!


greetz


By the way, 2A output is also one of those EU regulations for toy transformers.
Dikken

Check out my site:
http://www.modelspoorhobby.be
Offline john black  
#9 Posted : 03 May 2004 07:57:11(UTC)
john black

United States   
Joined: 21/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
Hi Stefano, Dikken, all:

It's a very good feeling to be safe again ... [^][^][^][^][^]

Many thanks
John
I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
UserPostedImage
Offline rugauger  
#10 Posted : 03 May 2004 12:39:16(UTC)
rugauger


Joined: 19/12/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,147
Location: Swindon, Wiltshire
Good job I didn't mention my trusty "old blue" which exhibits its copper when I bend the mains input lead a bit too much...[xx(][:0]
Richard
Offline john black  
#11 Posted : 03 May 2004 12:54:23(UTC)
john black

United States   
Joined: 21/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
Hi Richard:

Copper should be no problem as long as there are no rugrats around [:0][:0][:0] and your charming wife is aware of it when cleaning the layout biggrinbiggrinbiggrin

Regards
John
I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
UserPostedImage
Offline dikken  
#12 Posted : 03 May 2004 19:09:25(UTC)
dikken


Joined: 22/10/2003(UTC)
Posts: 376
Location: blankenberge,
Keep the doors locked!!!!! My wife[:X] is not allowed to come closer the 2 meters from the layout without my presence. [:D


biggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrin
Dikken

Check out my site:
http://www.modelspoorhobby.be
Offline john black  
#13 Posted : 03 May 2004 19:33:10(UTC)
john black

United States   
Joined: 21/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
biggrinbiggrinbiggrin

I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
UserPostedImage
Offline john black  
#14 Posted : 13 July 2004 00:34:46(UTC)
john black

United States   
Joined: 21/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
Hi all:
Needed analog transformer 6647 for catenary, found it on Web at German dealership, friend who was for business in Europe brought it today - Price: € 15.- biggrin[^] unbelievable but true !!!!!! (new transformers from cannibalized starter sets)

www.fundgrube-neandertal.de





I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
UserPostedImage
Offline usbeauty  
#15 Posted : 13 July 2004 03:13:13(UTC)
usbeauty


Joined: 16/02/2003(UTC)
Posts: 212
Location: San Francisco Bay area, California
I think this one is 220 volts, John. afaik. Nicht so gut in Brooklyn.
Bruce
Modeling the Bruxelles - Nord to Knokke - Heist line on my layout, complete with pommes frites stand (frituur). (Epoch IV, digital and analog)
Offline usbeauty  
#16 Posted : 13 July 2004 03:17:38(UTC)
usbeauty


Joined: 16/02/2003(UTC)
Posts: 212
Location: San Francisco Bay area, California
Here is a nice phatty one at 120 Volts for $40.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/e...item=5909116532&rd=1

Bruce
Modeling the Bruxelles - Nord to Knokke - Heist line on my layout, complete with pommes frites stand (frituur). (Epoch IV, digital and analog)
Offline john black  
#17 Posted : 13 July 2004 11:56:58(UTC)
john black

United States   
Joined: 21/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
Bruce, many thanks for being so helpful Smile but our house got 220 V outlets, too (mentioned that in an earlier post). Made sense for us so we can also buy European equipment - wife is French [:X]!!! ... and for me it's o.k. when selecting original M transformers wink (by the way that price wasn't a deal - it was a steal biggrinbiggrinbiggrin)

And as I can see ya speak German, too. Deshalb nochmals danke schön für Deine freundliche Besorgnis und auch für den entsprechenden Link, war sehr nett von Dir Smile

Best Regards,
John


I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
UserPostedImage
Offline usbeauty  
#18 Posted : 13 July 2004 15:24:26(UTC)
usbeauty


Joined: 16/02/2003(UTC)
Posts: 212
Location: San Francisco Bay area, California
220 Volts! Sorry I missed that post. I am indeed envious. Think of all the other great Euro things you can buy.

Til next time,
Bruce
Modeling the Bruxelles - Nord to Knokke - Heist line on my layout, complete with pommes frites stand (frituur). (Epoch IV, digital and analog)
Offline Night Train  
#19 Posted : 10 August 2004 00:19:10(UTC)
Night Train


Joined: 30/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 67
Location: ,
I have two new store-bought M transformers that have all the safety features, and I have one old blue case one. One of the new ones has already gone on-the-bum, and the other one is beginning to crash. That old blue 1980's era transformer will probably outlast me! Yes, they're SAFE!!! You're better-off with the archaic blue transformer than a whole boatload of the new ones! The new ones are junk! That's for sure! Happy posting. Sincerely: Night Train
Offline john black  
#20 Posted : 10 August 2004 00:58:18(UTC)
john black

United States   
Joined: 21/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
Hi Jerry, many thanks for sharing your valuable experiences with us Smile! Yes, I also had to buy for the analog part of my layout 2 brand new white 32VA trannys as a back up for my 3 blue ones from 1984 and I fully agree with you!!!
Although the new pieces aren't broken yet - just for "the good feeling about" I prefer the good old blue transformers, too - they simply feel and look very solid [^]. Especially the two small 10VA (37540) are unmatched when it comes to fine tuning at very slow speed - would never ever give'em away [:p] !!!

Thanks & Best Regards,
John

post scriptum: What exactly happened to no.I and which signs of self destruction biggrin shows no.II ???

I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
UserPostedImage
Offline David Dewar  
#21 Posted : 10 August 2004 11:06:31(UTC)
David Dewar


Joined: 31/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,028
Location: Scotland
Hi Jerry. Hope you are sending the tranformers back to the dealer. Usually very little ever goes wrong with a transformer you must be very unlucky.
David
Offline john black  
#22 Posted : 04 March 2005 19:26:12(UTC)
john black

United States   
Joined: 21/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
Hi all:

Looking for some nice pictures (links) of old blue M transformers no.6631 and 37540 (plastic body) for my gallery ...

Thanks for your help,
John

I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
UserPostedImage
Offline Karl  
#23 Posted : 05 March 2005 04:58:05(UTC)
Karl


Joined: 23/10/2003(UTC)
Posts: 234
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
I really don't think so unless they are plugged in all year and even after that they are probably safe (just get a little warm). I have a few that date back quite a few years and never had any problems with them. If there is ever a short they turn off immediately and reset just like the day they were new.
Karl
Offline Night Train  
#24 Posted : 05 March 2005 10:22:30(UTC)
Night Train


Joined: 30/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 67
Location: ,
I have bought a couple more of the blue-case ones from a couple people on eBay. I find them solid and dependable! However, one of them has a burned-out red power light in it. It still works though, and all we use that one for is yard work. Have yet to switch to Delta or Digital, and I probably never will. (Too much cost!) Also, a lot of my older equipment -- some dating back to the '50's -- will probably not run on Delta or Digital. However, I really enjoy those three older transformers I purchased on eBay! (I have since retired the old junk white modern-era transformers, and only use those as backups.) Well, I have to go, but I shall be in-touch. Good-bye for now. Sincerely: Night Train
Offline john black  
#25 Posted : 05 March 2005 12:02:49(UTC)
john black

United States   
Joined: 21/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
... still looking for PICTURES ( or web site links) on old blue transformers, please ... [:I] - Nobody ?

Many Thanks in advance Smile
John

I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
UserPostedImage
Offline HueyCE  
#26 Posted : 05 March 2005 14:22:11(UTC)
HueyCE


Joined: 11/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,528
Location: Groton, Connecticut
Check on e-bay for a picture there is usually someone there selling an old blue transformer.

Ira
Building German Era I-II layout(Mk IIIc).UserPostedImage

Offline efel  
#27 Posted : 05 March 2005 14:33:46(UTC)
efel

France   
Joined: 23/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 847
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by john black
<br />... still looking for PICTURES ( or web site links) on old blue transformers, please ... [:I] - Nobody ?

Many Thanks in advance Smile
John



Hi John, just found these pics on ebay site . They are all but nice, unfortunately [:(]. There is every week such material on ebay. May be one day you will find a nice one [:p]?


Fred
Offline hmsfix  
#28 Posted : 05 March 2005 15:09:51(UTC)
hmsfix


Joined: 06/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,383
Location: Darmstadt,
Hi all,

Can't either imagine why the 6631 trafo could bear an electric risk. There is no CE-symbol, that might be the reason for the warning.
Once I had a look into the case (One must bore the rivets to remove the case, don't do that!) when I changed the bulb. There was noting in that appeared "suspicious".

Of course, when the trafo falls out of a window in the 20th floor, it might be dangerous.

Best regards

Hans Martin
Offline Munich 1860  
#29 Posted : 05 March 2005 15:56:46(UTC)
Munich 1860

Germany   
Joined: 04/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,045
Location: Neu-Ulm, Bavaria
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by hmsfix
Of course, when the trafo falls out of a window in the 20th floor, it might be dangerous.


Hello everybody,

this last quote is really something we have to take into consideration !!! And even the 5th floor might be dangerous ....

But: there might be some truth in the original warning way up there. When I was young, we were told in the Märklin manuals, especially in the Märklin books 0310 and 0380, not to run several transformers, as it was put, "out of phase". Does anybody who knows the proper English expressions know about it ???

I do not want to go into too detailed technical stuff, but we were told that if two transformers are working alongside each other on your layout, and you only unplug one of them, for instance because its train has derailed, then, if they are out of phase, the mains power from the second, still running transformer (110 V or 230 V) can find its way through to the cable of the unplugged transformer. A child, holding the unplugged power cable, and trying to insert it back in, is clearly in great danger.

Is it still so ??? Does any Märklin manual from the modern days make reference to this effect ?? Maybe they have changed the technical specification, and therefore a warning concerning older transformers might be ok.

Having said that, I do agree with many posts above and can tell you that my 8 old transformers (1958 to 1969) are wonderful, and the only one that ever stopped working was a transformer from 1990...

Johann
I like M-track and my things that run on it were built between 1959 and 1972.
Offline nico van zon  
#30 Posted : 05 March 2005 17:09:32(UTC)
nico van zon


Joined: 25/07/2004(UTC)
Posts: 202
Location: ,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Munich 1860
<br />....Is it still so ??? Does any Märklin manual from the modern days make reference to this effect ?? Maybe they have changed the technical specification, and therefore a warning concerning older transformers might be ok. ....

The effect has nothing to do with the trafo's being out of phase. If you connect one trafo to the wall outlet, it transforms the 230V mains voltage into 16V on the output of the transformer. If you connect this 16V to the output of an other transformer, then this one will transform it back to 230V on the pins of the plug. Thats the real danger.
Modern transfo's of Märklin have a warning sticker that warns you not to put 2 trafo's in parallel, that's the only reference that they can make.
A change of specifications is of no use because this is a physical property of the trafo that can not be avoided.
Offline McLae  
#31 Posted : 05 March 2005 17:50:48(UTC)
McLae


Joined: 16/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,575
Location: DeSoto (Dallas area), TX
I have a (long winded) explanation of what 'out of phase' means, and why it matters. Also, how to detect the problem and fix it. Plus, why the MS might be different.

Note: I spent some time working for a company that tested power meters, so I know something about how electrical power works.

Contact me off-line and I will tell you more than you want to know.biggrin
The McLae
IB digital, DB, OBB, SBB epII-V
Providing a home for little lost 'Gators
Offline john black  
#32 Posted : 05 March 2005 18:31:39(UTC)
john black

United States   
Joined: 21/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by efel
<br />Hi John, just found these pics on ebay site. They are all but nice, unfortunately [:(]. There is every week such material on ebay. May be one day you will find a nice one [:p] ?


Hi Fred Smile, many thanks for being so helpful - now I've got at least one of each model ...

John

I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
UserPostedImage
Offline john black  
#33 Posted : 05 March 2005 18:39:01(UTC)
john black

United States   
Joined: 21/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by HueyCE
<br />Check on e-bay for a picture


Hi Ira Smile, many thanks too - had thought this would be of no use for me since pics at EBAY are generally very small ...

John

I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
UserPostedImage
Offline steventrain  
#34 Posted : 05 March 2005 21:37:33(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 26,951
Location: Northern Ireland
I have 6631/6671 from 1984,working both doing well,i see no problem at all.
Largest marklinist Layout with Centrail station 2/Mobile station 2/60174 boosters/C-Tracks/K-Tracks/Favorites class BR01, BR23, BR50/Insider Club membership since 2004.
Offline john black  
#35 Posted : 06 March 2005 12:43:09(UTC)
john black

United States   
Joined: 21/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
Hi Steven, such are very good news.

Many Thanks Smile
John
I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
UserPostedImage
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